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בברכה, חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 01:59, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

SVG maps עריכה

Dear NordNordWest, my name is Chagai Adler and I am leading the maps project here in the Hebrew Wikipedia. I appreciate very much your help, and impressed by every new SVG map you are adding. Here, I am approving, after strict tests, any new map added, so I am asking you to notify me, at my talk page, when you add or replace exsting map, so I can check it. The Cambodia new map was perfect! Thanks and be in touch. חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 01:59, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

Well, I don't know what you want to test but if you want to I'll leave a message at your talk page. At least that keeps me from being frustated about not getting used to write from right to left. Quite difficult in a template. ;-) --NNW - שיחה 11:30, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
Take a look at this link: שיחת תבנית:מפת מיקום/קמבודיה. I made some tests to make sure all the corners are correct and some spots I found on Google earth. I hope we will see more maps coming quickly... Keep up the good job. חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 11:45, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
And I thought I proved by now that I know how to create location maps and that I can be trusted... :-) About "coming quickly" I'm not so sure, unfortunately. --NNW - שיחה 12:05, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
Well, I have to test it. Take a look at קטגוריה:מפות מיקום לא תקינות
All these maps had been rejected due to errors, although they are in use at other Wikis. I wonder how come, because some of them had major mistakes. However, all the SVG new maps found to be correct! Be proud.
On another issue. We have here internal debate on the maps. I think they are very accurate and therefore should be forced in all the cities templates. Someone else is saying "this is Wiki, and everyone can use whatever map he wants". Can you tell me what is the situation in the German Wiki and in other Wikis you know? חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 12:14, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
These maps are a project of French and German map labs to improve all location maps templates. Everyone there is used to work with maps and geo data – some of them even in real life – so all the new maps should be correct. They are professionally made, unlike most maps in WP.
In the beginning there has been the idea of German map lab to produce standardised high quality location map. At the same time there has been an invitation of French map lab at Commons to talk about a unified style for all kinds of maps in WP but only some few users made contributions. In the end German map lab decided to start with the location maps as we thought that it is impossible to do what French map lab intended to do at that moment. WP doesn't work that way (my opinion). To start with 200 country location maps seemed to be enough work. Colours were chosen that colourblind people can use them, too, and it had to be SVG. 
The project started last year, in a first step to create maps of European countries, then in a second step all the other countries and some subdivision maps (e.g. Scotland), project open-ended. We didn't intend to insert these maps into single infoboxes, it's the decision of the thematic projects if they want to do it. It's because after having started with the first maps we got several complaints about not having asked the portals or projects and why we have chosen those colours. Everybody wanted to be asked. And in every WP, too. Of course this is a ridiculous idea, it would have meant to ask hundreds of people with different opinions about maps – and btw. in the end no one of them would have help to produce them. This style is a compromise and especially its greyish look is disliked by many (and especially at en-WP which uses quite colourful maps) but the compromise has been made by users who know something about maps.
So we put these maps just into the location map templates, not into infobox templates, a slow start of introducing this style. Our wish is that after a while the different projects begin to use these location maps because they want it. The best result would be a consistent style in all projects to get something like a "WP look" but I doubt that this will be achieved. Some users got used to the new map style after creating their own versions (like this one), some just start anew with creating derivates (like this one, with a quite interesting description I must say! As if we wouldn't have thought about all these items...). It's WP and you cannot avoid it, so I don't care as long as the maps aren't changed in the WPs I care for. We will see what happens when my maps get updated. Will the derivates be updated, too? We'll see but – to be honest – it won't be my problem.
Comments and long discussions only came from English, Polish and German users (as far as I was included). I assume most WPs are too small to discuss these things, they are glad that there are maps and it doesn't really matter how they look like and there is no one who is able to change it. As it is a project of fr-WP and de-WP there hasn't been big problems there, the map labs were able to discuss with all those who wanted to. Biggest items were that some infoboxes looked differently after inserting the new maps so in most cases users starting in WP some years ago were irritated. They were used to a different style and it's difficult in WP to change something. After a while everything was fine and discussions ended. The more maps were changed the less comments were made. At ru-WP there is a bureaucrat who supports the new maps, afaik there are no discussions there. At nl-WP all infoboxes with maps are greyish, too, so there is no problem, infoboxes and maps fit. Some maps aren't used in some special WPs because of disputed borders (that's why I'm very interested in which maps are used here! :-) ). In the end it's a question of familiarisation to this style and a question of map quality. That made me stop to discuss everything with everybody, it's often senseless in WP. It's better to explain, give them the chance to decide and wait. That's my strategy. NNW - שיחה 15:07, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
Hey NNW. Now I realize how your name reflect your mission... Well, don't think we don't have our own internal debates. It is not on colors or international borders, but on other issues. These debates are probable over 300K of discussions by now... Right now we appointed at arbitrator who is arbitrating between the opinion of forcing the maps or not. You can't read Hebrew but take a look at how many arguments and maps each side is bringing in משתמש:שנילי/בוררות בעניין מחלוקת בנושא מפות
It was very interesting to read about the dynamics of the project. We took the maps one step forward, and put a dynamic layer of places on top of it. Take a look at the maps in this category, and Poland example to the left. Tell me if you think you guys might be interested in it. חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 16:56, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
All rhe maps with Hebrew layer are here: קטגוריה:תבניות מיפוי עם כיתוב בעברית חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ט בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 17:01, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
There are some examples of similar usage e.g. in fr-WP, here on bottom of that page, or as a thematic map in de-WP. I think the projects will use the maps differently. I would suggest not to import ideas too early from one project to the others. That way more ideas about what can be done with location maps might be realized. Fr-WP started with exchangeable maps (example in infobox), de-WP is trying a further step here, not optimized right now but interesting to think about. Example in an infobox: de:Benutzer:PatDi/Gemeinde. --NNW - שיחה 19:54, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

enlarge maps עריכה

This is so cool. I am glad we opened this discussion. One of the requests here is to get the red dot and the layer details also when you enlarge the maps. Do you know about Wikis that implement the idea, so we can see what they did? חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ' בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 20:10, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

I once read (forgot where and when) that this is impossible because the license has to be shown when clicking the image but I don't know if this is true or who could be asked about it, perhaps somewhere at Meta. Maybe there could be a solution for it like for imagemaps with that "i" dot for information. I'm sure this idea hasn't been realized in any project yet. --NNW - שיחה 20:35, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
Believe it or not' one of the guys here found a solution for it. Take a look at משתמש:תומר א./ארגז חול
The map there was enlarged with the dot. It is not pefect yet, and on hold due to the arbitration, but a solution. I referred him to this discussion as well. חגי אדלרשיחהל-101 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ' בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 20:48, 13 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

I don't understand how it works. Seems to be just like a bigger location map but I cannot read the programming behind it. Would like to see it "in action". --NNW - שיחה 17:43, 14 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

Hello NNW, it is a pleasure to meet you. I'm sorry for my spaghetti code as I created it only as a POC (Proof of concept) for enlarging the maps. the idea is quite simple:
the template that Chagay's project used is working in the following way:
  1. Place the picture
  2. get one of the the picture's corners
  3. calculate the place to put the dot relatively to this corner (in terms of vertical and horizontal sizes)

what I did:

  1. calculate the proportion change for the picture (e.g. if you enlarge from 250px to 800px the proportion change is 3.2)
  2. multiply the the vertical and the horizontal size by the proportion change and put the dot in its new place. תומר א. - שיחה

Hello! I thought it was meant this way: You have a map in an infobox with a size of letssay 200px and a dot on it. Then you click on it to enlarge it and can still see the map with the dot. But that doesn't work here. I cannot see the dynamic in the map. (Or isn't the dynamic implanted yet?) It's just an enlarged map as far as I have understood. But for this you don't have to calculate, the geographical position is still the same and the dot will be placed correct like here. Or I definitely didn't understand what you did, I'm sorry. Please try again, I would like to understand it (although I'm a complete idiot in programming). --NNW - שיחה 17:32, 15 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

The default is 250px, clicking it will lead you to a new template that displays an enlarged map with the dot on it. you can check it out here. the last line is size and you can change it to your preferred size. all that is left to do is to make sure that clicking the map links you to this template (which is quite easy). תומר א. - שיחה 18:57, 16 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

Tomer, it is hard-coded for Cambodia now, with borders of the map as numbers. Can you show us the template with dynamic parameters? חגי אדלרשיחהל-100 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ"ג בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 19:01, 16 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

Chagay, this is the simplified demonstration for NNW, you can change the map and the boarders in משתמש:תומר א./ארגז חול. תומר א. - שיחה 19:19, 16 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

This seems to be a good solution. That means that the file description is shown after a second click. As I said above I'm not sure if this is okay. I'll try to find somebody who knows better than me. --NNW - שיחה 22:14, 16 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

I was told at German Village Pump that there has to be a possibility to get the file description with a single click (except PD images). As none of the new location maps is PD there has to be a solution according to imagemaps with the "i" dot in a corner. Otherwise your idea doesn't seem to be allowed. --NNW - שיחה 19:07, 17 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

Hmm... You mean this is a license issue? I will consult with our own expert as well. חגי אדלרשיחהל-100 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ"ה בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 16:52, 19 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
Also, the red dot is also addition on the original map. What is the difference between it and the additional dots we added as a layer, and wht two clicks are needed? חגי אדלרשיחהל-100 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ"ו בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 18:58, 19 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
I don't think that there is a difference between a dot via coordinates or a bunch of dots via layer. That is no problem. The map below isn't modified (as I said below), no new file is created, it's just virtual. The problem is that it seems to be necessary to get the file description with one click. If I click a location map and get a bigger version of it, that's what you plan, I have to click a second time to get the license information. --NNW - שיחה 20:01, 19 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה
It is clear to me now. As long as we put a little "i" in the map to see the license, we are fine with the enlargement option. So whoever click on the map will get a larger one, anf click on the "i" will get the file info. חגי אדלרשיחהל-100 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ"ו בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 21:43, 19 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

License עריכה

Someone asked me today... We are adding layers on the maps. Is it OK with the license? Because we are creating kind of a new image. חגי אדלרשיחהל-100 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ"ג בשבט ה'תשס"ט • 22:20, 16 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

I don't think that this is a problem. The map itself isn't modified. It's not possible to copy this new image, it's just virtual. On the other hand the license allows modifications as long as the new map has got the same license and author and source are mentioned. --NNW - שיחה 19:12, 17 בפברואר 2009 (IST)תגובה

What is your order? עריכה

Just wonder... I checked maps of India, China, Brazil, Indonesia, Mexico etc. and they are really incorrect. So why don't you guys pay your attention to these countries with 50% of world population first? חגי אדלרשיחהל-90 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ו' באדר ה'תשס"ט • 06:54, 2 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה

I was asked this just some days ago by a user from en-WP. It's a question of – lacking – time for me. A map of a small country is easier to do for me than one of a big country. And unfortunately inserting a map which might be used quite often leads to long discussions à la "Why didn't you asked us about colours/borders/map size etc?" Right now I don't have the energy and nerves for it. Btw I'm not sure if the map of China will be used that often. Greece is small but there are lots of articles in which a map can be used. That's different with China. In the end all maps will be made and I don't feel like on the run. :) --NNW - שיחה 11:06, 2 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
I liked the promise! The reason I asked is because I wanted to insert the maps to the cities in India' Mexico' Brazil etc. but they are way too off. Are you planning also on maps of the 50 states of the US? Germany states? Same level in other countries like Canada provinces? חגי אדלרשיחהל-90 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ו' באדר ה'תשס"ט • 11:25, 2 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Except for Brandenburg all German states got their location maps already. User:Sting from fr-WP made Florida, perhaps he will do more. The US states maps aren't so bad that they are on top of our list. Some French regions are made and almost all Swedish subdivisions. I think by and by some other countries will get subdivision maps when it's wanted and necessary. --NNW - שיחה 13:19, 2 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Where is the location of all these great maps? Please give me the category, So we can add it. For exanple, the Interwiki to Florida map is still the same as ours and I want to replace it. In my checks, I am rejecting half of the US maps, and I can show you examples. So they are not bad, but not acceptable either... חגי אדלרשיחהל-90 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ז' באדר ה'תשס"ט • 19:54, 2 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
It's commons:Category:Location maps of Africa, commons:Category:Location maps of Asia, commons:Category:Location maps of Europe, commons:Category:Location maps of Oceania, commons:Category:Location maps of North America and commons:Category:Location maps of South America. The new Florida map is used at fr-WP. I forgot to insert into the German template. Brandenburg will follow today btw. --NNW - שיחה 11:13, 3 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Thanks. I was able to find 8 maps we did not installed yet, all of them small countries. What do you think on Russia map? Can we trust it? It has no coordinates to align it. חגי אדלרשיחהל-90 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ז' באדר ה'תשס"ט • 17:35, 3 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Don't know. Without coordinates it's try and error. As far as I know no project uses this map. --NNW - שיחה 18:24, 3 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
With California and Mexico, I just took out two maps out of my rejection list! If it can help' take a look at קטגוריה:מפות מיקום לא תקינות. All the maps there are incorrect, and I will appreciate if they can be worked soon. Keep up the good job. חגי אדלרשיחהל-84 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • י"ז באדר ה'תשס"ט • 02:41, 13 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Well, I don't know if I really should look there. :-) I have no order and I'm surprising myself which country will be the next one. Sometimes it just has to be something senseless like Falkland Islands no one really needs. This keeps the fun for me. I have to think about it... --NNW - שיחה 14:17, 15 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה
Well, we did have one article on a city there... the only city! חגי אדלרשיחהל-84 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • כ' באדר ה'תשס"ט • 18:43, 15 במרץ 2009 (IST)תגובה

Elephent Island עריכה

Take a look. Why coordinates are not on the island? חגי אדלרשיחהל-73 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ה' בניסן ה'תשס"ט • 17:20, 30 במרץ 2009 (IDT)תגובה

61°08′S 55°15′W / 61.14°S 55.25°W / -61.14; -55.25

I made a bad mistake but it's corrected now. --NNW - שיחה 11:05, 31 במרץ 2009 (IDT)תגובה
Thanks. Cooperation is a good thing... חגי אדלרשיחהל-73 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ח' בניסן ה'תשס"ט • 14:45, 2 באפריל 2009 (IDT)תגובה



Lybia map עריכה

I know you have your own tempo, but I have a request. In few weeks we are planning an "attack" on a subject, and this time it will be on the WWII battles in North Africa. As part of it, many new articles on cities and places in Lybia will be added. However, the map is catastrophic... Can you put the creation of the map higher in your priority list? Thanks. חגי אדלרשיחהל-73 ערי מיליונים אין עדיין ערך. קחו אחת! • ח' בניסן ה'תשס"ט • 14:45, 2 באפריל 2009 (IDT)תגובה

I'll see what I can do. I'm quite busy in real life right now. --NNW - שיחה 13:06, 4 באפריל 2009 (IDT)תגובה